Welcome to The Elfster Podcast, brought to you by Elfster, a gifting platform that strengthens social bonds by increasing acts of generosity. In each episode, we sit down with an expert to share stories about digital retail trends and talk about the future of e-commerce. Our host is Peter Imburg, the CEO and Founder of Elfster, who has dedicated his career to connecting communities, audiences and brands.
In this episode of the Elfster Podcast we speak with Salaam Bhatti, Muslim-American lawyer to discuss Eid al-Fitr, the celebration at the end of Ramadan and learn about the changing trends for the next generation of Muslims. Learn more about Peter and Salaam here:
Peter ImburgPeter Imburg
Hi, and welcome to the Elfster podcast. Our guest today is Salaam Bhatti, [Muslim American lawyer]. Salaam's going to talk to us about Eid, the Muslim celebration at the end of Ramadan for our non-Muslim listeners. We're going to learn more about Islam, Eid and Ramadan and for the Muslim listener, we're going to learn about changing trends for the next generation of Muslims let's get started.
Hello Salaam, thanks for being on the show. I appreciate you being on.
Salaam Bhatti
Thanks for having me, Peter.
Peter Imburg
And we're connecting with you in Richmond, Virginia. Is that right?
Salaam Bhatti
That's right. And the beautiful, somewhat South.
Peter Imburg
Okay. Yeah. Great. Well, it looks like a beautiful start of spring there. So I'm really excited that we're today going to be talking to you about Eid, a Muslim celebration at the end of Ramadan. And I think this is going to be really great for our non Muslim listeners who are going to get a chance to learn about Eid. Maybe they haven't. Maybe they've heard about it, but maybe they don't know much about it.
Learn about Ramadan and also how, you know, modern Muslim life is and what that celebration is alike. I'm also hoping for any Muslim listeners that they can also, learn a little bit about the trends and how things are. changing and modernizing with the next generation of, you know, people of Muslim faith.
So, why don't we get into it?
Salaam Bhatti
Let's do it.
Peter Imburg
All right. Great. Well, Salaam first, could you tell us a little bit about Islam and its background? I think that in America it's really misunderstood and maybe you can help us appreciate, more about the faith.
Salaam Bhatti
Sure. In a quick nutshell, slalom is a religion that is essentially, you could say a sibling, a religion of Judaism, Christianity. in that it's a monotheistic faith. It believes in all the past profits of many other faiths and so we have what's similar. We have a lot of similar teachings. There's not a lot that separates us or differentiates that's when it comes to religious teachings, there might be some separate practices.
For example, we pray five times a day. We will have recitations of our Holy book at least once a day, called the Koran. We have the month of fasting, which is called Ramadan, which we'll be talking about today as well. Fasting is not something that is so different because, like pretty much every other faith practices in some way, shape or form. In America we're still a minority, but a growing minority, a lot of people are. moving to America from different countries who are Muslim. we're seeing a lot of people who are, you know, choosing it as their faith as well. and we're, we're just seeing a lot more people understanding and appreciating, not only Islam, but making, Muslim friends, so to, you know, create a bigger circle, which is really cool to see.
Peter Imburg
Great. Yeah. Thanks for that background. And I, you know, I've enjoyed when you invited me virtually to your mosque last year - I had an opportunity and I guess that's kind of the outreach you're talking about, like making friends that are Muslim and getting to understand, kind of what life's about for our Muslim neighbors. So thank you. and then you mentioned, Ramadan, this period of fasting. What is Ramadan?
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah. So this is something that we Muslims do, we fast from dawn until dusk. And that means we don't eat or drink anything like not even chewing gum, even water and not even having a mint, during the, during the daylight hours. What's really interesting is that Ramadan is based on the lunar calendar. So it moves back about 10 days every solar year. That's why, if you've heard of it, you'll probably be like, wait, why do I hear about it at a different time every year? Well, that's because it's moving back, like a sand dune moves across the desert.
And so you never get to really become used to that fast. It's never only in the winter. It's never only in the summer. It's an equal opportunity, a month. Fasting isn't something that's mandatory for all Muslims even though it is a very important part of Islam. If you are too old or too young or pregnant or nursing or ill for any reason - or traveling even - you are not allowed to fast. It's an explicit prohibition, it's not good for you, it would hurt you. But what you can do is you can actually, you know, pay a certain amount of money every day that would help feed a family for that day.
So there's a great thing to do if you can't fast. And of course, a fast is not just limited to Muslims. Non-Muslims are always invited by their Muslim friends to partake in some of the fast as well, or at least come and break the fast together, so that's always a great experience for non-muslims
Peter Imburg
And breaking the fast, like you mean each day and Ramadan.
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah, so breaking the fast happens when the sun sets and typically what Muslims will do is they'll have like a couple of dates and some water, that way you don't really shock the system with too much food. you get the fiber and the sugar and the hydration that you need. and it's also something that prophet Muhammad peace be upon him would do. That was his practice. He would break his fast by having some dates in the water.
Peter Imburg
And, I'm just kinda curious, like, let's say when you were growing up at what age did you start joining in the fast?
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah, so like, maybe when I was 10 or so I would start doing like half a day, or, you know, at least waking up with my parents enjoy breakfast and then, when I was, by the time I was a teenager, doing it for the full day. Like 15, 16, 17, by the time I think I was like 17, 18 I was just going all in.
Peter Imburg
Okay. Interesting. And so with the time of year, does it get harder when Ramadan is in summer, you've got a much longer period to fast? I mean, do you have any story about what it's like on a really long Ramadan day?
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah. It's so hard, man. So, the summers here in Virginia are so hot and humid that it could be very difficult, but thank God for air conditioning, first of all, so that really makes things a lot easier. But if you're out, if you're toiling in the house and the heat and everything, it's still difficult, you really have to be mindful of the energy you are spending.
So there were some summers ago when I was much younger, I wouldn't, I would play soccer while I was fasting in the summertime. And I noticed that I was actually playing a lot better while I was fasting because I wasn't wasting energy. I wasn't recklessly running after the ball or recklessly trying to defend somebody. I was making calculated steps and kicks and this and that. So it really helps you to practice the art of self control and that is a huge aspect of Ramadan. Ramadan isn't just about eating, not eating or drinking. It's about what can you do with that energy that you have to help the people around you? You don't just sit at home and wait until the fast breaks you, you have to be out there and helping people out.
Peter Imburg
Okay. So would you say that is kind of the main, overarching, emphasis during the month of Ramadan and then accompanied with the fasting?
Salaam Bhatti
Yep. So fasting is not an excuse to not do anything. You're going to get even more blessings in Islam when you are abstaining from food and drink and going out and literally loving your neighbors, or setting up blood drives or, cleaning up the streets. And that's what made Ramadan so difficult last year, during the pandemic, during the start of the pandemic that, Muslims are by nature, social beings, humans are social beings.
So Muslims just take on that as well and we want to go out and help people. But when we were socially distancing, when we couldn't even come to our mosques to enjoy Ramadan together it took a hit and we, we definitely took a hit in terms of, not being able to do as much as we'd want it to.
Peter Imburg
How did you adapt so that you could still have that experience?
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah, so humans are very quick to adapt. And so we took on the zoom and everybody else did.
And we had virtual iftars, which was a virtual breaking of the fast. And so mosques across the country, including ours in Richmond invited locally elected officials, and people from the neighborhood and our friends. We could just learn a little bit about Ramadan talking about justice because social justice was really big back then as it is still today. And have a discussion and learn a little bit about Ramadan too. We also tried our best to at least clean up our neighborhoods, with our families or individually, so that we could still partake in some type of blessings. Then once Eid comes, we love to give our neighbors gifts and just share the joy with them as well.
So we would leave gift bags at their door knob on their doorstep, just to, you know, adapt.
Peter Imburg
So you mentioned, Eid. Could you explain a little bit about what Eid is and how you celebrate it with your community and family?
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah. Eid so there are three Eids within Islam. There's the one after Ramadan. Eid is an Arabic word, essentially it means festival. Then there is the Eid that comes a couple of months after, this upcoming Eid honors the prophet Abraham's sacrifice or near sacrifice of his son Ishmael. And then the third Eid is actually the most frequent Eid.
It's actually Friday and is considered an Eve within Islam. so, what we see with Eid Al Fitr, which is the eve at the end of Ramadan, it's a very joyous occasion, families get together, friends get together. We have a feast, we celebrate with a lot of good food and we get together and give gifts and distribute gifts to each other, to our friends or non Muslim and to our neighbors as well. So it's just a super joyous occasion. You'll see Mosques lit up and it's a super fun time.
Peter Imburg
Yeah. I, I imagine, I mean, it's wonderful. It is all the good spirit that you spread during Ramadan that it must be really a happy moment when the end of the month arrives and you are celebrating together.
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And again, that took a hit last year, too. So, we couldn't get in, meet with our families as we would, or with friends or neighbors, inviting people over to have some great food together, so that was that.
Peter Imburg
Now, you've started to make, a, a, a bit of a, a tradition of, exchanging gifts, with a gift exchange, like a secret Eid gift exchange. Tell me about how that got started and how that fits in. It's something new with the celebration of Eid isn't it?
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah. So, You know, Muslims are love to give gifts. In fact, you know, the prophet Mohammad has said that, give gifts to each other because it makes you love one another. So we love giving gifts all the time, but we understand that it's sometimes you have large families and it can get very expensive to give everybody a gift and to put a lot of thought into giving that gift such that it doesn't just become some sort of chotsky or trinket that contributes to environmental waste, because Muslims are also very environmentally conscious people as well. So what my friends and I did many years ago was instead of every one of us giving every single one of them a gift, we did this small gift exchange, where we all signed up through Elfster and had a secret person to give gifts to.
And what was great is that it really helped us to learn a little bit more about each other, thanks to the wishlist. You can know so much about a person, but sometimes you don't know what he or she wants or what's a practical thing for them. So that wishlist was really helpful. not in the sense that you had to give them that, that one thing or that specific thing, but something in that ballpark would be and so we saw, all of us got something really cool. It was just really a really memorable thing. That snowballed to me doing it with my family as well. I have about a dozen or so cousins, and instead of, you know, instead of spending like five bucks on each of them, I was just like, guys, we need a solution here. We need a practical solution. Right. And everybody agreed. And we had like the limit of like 20, 25 bucks. And it was, I think it was a hit
Peter Imburg
Oh, that's great. I mean, that sounds like a lot of the practical benefits we, you know, we hear, not just, you know, in terms of, you know, doing a gift exchange instead of giving gifts to everyone that you'd like to, and, and, as well as like really embracing, I know, you know what you're saying, how important, gift giving is for Muslims and, you know, that if I heard it right, you were saying it kind of expresses and grows a kind of love between the people and that's what we really think about how, you know, we like to increase acts of generosity because it strengthens the bonds of people and that's love of people, too. So it does seem like a great fit, but of course Elfster was a little bit tilted, looking very, can I say it looked a little "Christmas-y" I guess. You reached out to me last year and what was on your mind?
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah, I reached out to you on a whim. I was like, there needs to be something that Muslims can use, so I Googled "Muslim Secret Eid", nothing. I was surprised nothing came up and I was like, well, I know Elfster exists. maybe I can just borrow their code and do it. But then I was like, that's a lot of work. So let me just see if they'd be open to expanding their services, and making that an inclusive environment for Muslims. And so I shot an email up to you. Like it was like a shot in the dark. I'm like the CEO of a company is going to respond to this little old me and actually you did. And it really, it caught me off guard. I was like, Oh, that's awesome. And, we set up a call and, I let you know what I was thinking about how, you know, there are so many Muslims, coming in, coming of age in America, Muslims, or growing up with so much excellent technology all over the world, that they could also utilize this, secret exchange amongst their family and friends.
So let's make it happen. you already have a powerful tool, super simple. although there's, I'm sure a lot of complexity behind it, but it's super simple to use. and, let's, let's merge our minds and make it happen.
Peter Imburg
Yeah, absolutely. And I, you know, I'm really excited that, that, that we've been able to make changes to make Elfster to be more inclusive, to tone down some of the more Christmas-y things, especially outside of the Christmas season. And, of course I know we're going to run into an issue there when I'm sure you're probably looking forward to the shortest, fasting period in December, but those were great, observations and insights, and we've really worked to try to make Elfster more inclusive this year. There's still more ways to go and who knows how far we can go. I know we've explored some other ideas like a dedicated site for Muslims, which could be in the future. It would be really exciting, as well, but going back to the gift exchange, and you mentioned the wishlist, I think that people listening might be interested to know that traditionally the idea of like a wishlist might be pretty off-putting to, to a Muslim. can you explain that? I think that is pretty interesting.
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah. So conservatively speaking, it's considered rude or impolite to ask for something and when we were making our wishlist, we had this understanding that we're not necessarily asking for something it's, Hey, here's an idea of things that we like.
Because sometimes you don't know a person, even though you could be friends or even family with them. So this is a great way to gift something that people would actually really enjoy and appreciate. And more importantly use because so often, you'd get this silly little trinket or with, you know, thank you for it. And I appreciate it. And that's very kind of you, but I'm probably never going to use it. It's probably going to be on a shelf. And it's probably going to end up in a box for a Goodwill or some donation.
But in my case, whenever I get a gift and I use it, I often think about the person who gave it to me and I say a little prayer for them while I'm using it. And I hope that that benefits them in some way, shape or form. So this is a super great way of a forward thinking way as well of keeping that sanctity of giving a gift because there's no expectation that you're going to get that thing, but it really helps level or inform the person. Here are some things that could be useful for me.
And the wishlist is so great because it sticks around after need as well. So if you didn't get a certain friend or family member for that secret exchange, you can just choose on a whim to give that gift later on in the year. And that. We'll make that person love you just as even more so why not?
Peter Imburg
A little random, generosity. Yeah. I highly recommend it. And, it's a great reminder cause I, I would love to do that more. That's a great idea. So...
Salaam Bhatti
I'll give you my address later Peter!
Peter Imburg
...look up your wishlist. for sure. And, actually, as a matter of fact, I don't think I'm following your wishlist yet. So, that I'd have to add to my to-do as well.
Salaam Bhatti
I think we add a Tesla to that wishlist.
Peter Imburg
Okay. So you've recapped a lot of the benefits, you know, that how this is a new way. That is a little bit of a transition, of some traditional practices, but really embraces others, like care for the environment and the embracing, gift giving and doing something special that will be appreciated and bring people closer together. That is, just really music to my ears and I'm thrilled that we can continue to, I want to express to you my commitment to continue to serve Muslims on this very special occasion. I don't know if I will ever try a sympathetic fast, including no water or fingernails or anything to...
Salaam Bhatti
I'm very curious about your diet period. Well, you're going to be a very nervous person.
Peter Imburg
If I had absolutely nothing from sun up to sun down in the middle of the summer, I would, I might resort to that or not.
Salaam Bhatti
I'm sure. I'm sure we'll have you do a practice fast when it is in the winter.
Peter Imburg
There you go. A little starter fast for me. That would be about what I could do. So I'm throwing a little bit of a curve at you Salaam, but I did a little bit of research too. And I just as we close here, I find you a very fascinating person on many levels, but my research turned up that you are also, or have been, something of a stand-up comic, as well.
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah, in a past life, I did, I used to live in New York and, while I was there, I was when I was in law school. my first year a friend of mine was setting up a talent show. And he said, Salaam, I really need your help to make this successful. Can you please do stand-up comedy? And I had never done standup comedy, and I was like, all right, sure.
I guess I can put some jokes together just to help you out. And so I did, and I actually ended up winning the talent show and that was in 2008, 2009. So while I was in New York, I took advantage of being there and. Performed stand up comedy and did improv, for a number of years, before I moved down South of Virginia. So yeah, I did, I did.
Peter Imburg
Okay. But you're not finding the same kind of startup standup scene there in Richmond, like in New York?
Salaam Bhatti
Not at all, but I did, I got back into improv, so, I'm trying to wet the whistle through that.
Peter Imburg
Okay, great. You have a nice, family friendly, joke for us?
Salaam Bhatti
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. studies are showing that the Moderna and Pfizer injection of vaccinations are causing people to cry. What we've seen is that the Johnson and Johnson form of vaccine is not causing the same reaction. This is in part thanks to their no tears formula.
Peter Imburg
Nice. All right. so, well thank you for joining us, today and helping us, you know, all get a better understanding of what Ramadan is all about, what Eid is like, and how you've been, helping, you know, Push Elfster to help make it more, inclusive for the Muslim, users and, for your insights as well on kind of the changing, you know, ways and with the next generation really embracing, aspects of, of Muslim religion, but in different ways, modernized for our modern times.
How could we like keep in touch with you and, how, how can we follow what you, what you have to say.
Salaam Bhatti
Yeah, if, if people want to get in touch with me, they can follow me on Twitter at Salaam, spelled S A L A A M or shoot me a DM. My DM is always open. I'll be happy to chat. And even like, as people go through Ramadan and Eid and do their gift exchanges, if they see ways that we can improve the Elfster Eid secret gift exchange. Please let me know then I'll be happy to raise those issues with you, Peter and keep the conversation going. This is, this is going to be the first year where we go in big on this, so, yeah. And it can only get better from here on out.
Peter Imburg
All right. Noted. That is noted. Thank you. Well, thanks for being with us Salaam and have a great day!